富乐 (FUL.US) 2025年第四季度业绩电话会
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会议摘要
HB Fuller navigates economic challenges through strategic pricing, cost management, and selective acquisitions, achieving double-digit EPS growth and EBITDA improvements. The company focuses on high-margin markets, implements cost-saving initiatives like Quantum Leap, and anticipates profit growth and margin expansion for 2026, despite a challenging economic environment.
会议速览
The call, moderated by an operator, introduces HB Fuller's Q4 2025 earnings, highlighting non-GAAP financial measures and forward-looking statements. It outlines the structure of the call, emphasizing the presentation by leadership and a Q&A session, while noting the inclusion of non-GAAP financials and potential risks affecting future outcomes.
HB Fuller achieved double-digit EPS growth and EBITDA at the top end of guidance despite a weak economic backdrop. Strategic portfolio repositioning, pricing adjustments, and cost-saving measures drove improved profitability. Organic revenue growth in key segments and geographic regions demonstrated resilience. The company anticipates continued profit growth and margin expansion in 2026, aiming for over 20% EBITDA margin.
Discusses Q4 2025 revenue decline, EBITDA increase, and 2026 guidance focusing on profit growth, margin improvement, and operational efficiencies despite economic hurdles.
The company highlights successful acquisitions in 2025, focusing on medical adhesives and fastener coating systems, which have enhanced market presence and EBITDA. Strategic buys in Asia and Europe expand the global platform, emphasizing technology-driven growth and strong customer relationships. External recognitions underscore employee dedication and cultural strength, reinforcing the commitment to strategic initiatives amidst unpredictable global conditions.
The dialogue discusses Q1 revenue expectations, noting a low single-digit top-line decline largely attributed to the timing of Chinese New Year, which pushes revenue into Q2. The year-end order patterns from CPG customers were observed to have a slight step-down, but the primary influence on Q1 performance is the holiday timing. Early tracking for the year aligns with expectations, excluding the holiday season anomalies.
Discussed the impact of raw materials and pricing on fiscal 26, noting a $35 million benefit from price and raw material dynamics, with a slightly positive trend expected for the entire year, slightly weighted towards the first half, due to new pricing measures and sourcing reallocation efforts.
The dialogue discusses an anticipated increase in margins across all GBUs by 2026, paralleling recent successful outcomes.
Discusses the impact of a tough comparison period and a weakening construction environment on the bass segment, highlighting wins in LNG and data center projects, while noting that the government shutdown did not affect operations.
The dialogue covers the global packaging industry's challenges, especially in North America, and highlights HHC's strategic moves towards growth in developing nations. It discusses the impact of affordability issues and lack of mobility on packaging demand, the positive outcomes in EMEA and Asia Pacific due to innovative solutions, and provides a breakdown of expected revenue by segment, noting the role of pricing and volume dynamics.
The dialogue opens with a formal introduction and exchange of pleasantries, marking the start of an investor relations call. The host acknowledges the first question from a participant, setting a professional tone for the discussion.
Discussed 2026 free cash flow outlook, highlighting increased income and higher inventory as primary drivers for operating cash flow, alongside expected capex levels. EBITDA guidance emphasized self-help strategies, including pricing adjustments, $35 million pricing improvement, $10 million quantum leap savings, offset by $10 million variable comp and $20 million wage inflation, with volume impact being a potential swing factor.
The dialogue discusses factors influencing financial metrics, including higher pension income due to increased returns, successful FX hedging strategies, deferred taxes impacted by a Chinese dividend's withholding tax, and fluctuations in trade payables reflecting inventory timing adjustments.
The solar business revenue is expected to decline from $80 million in 2025 to around $50 million by the end of the year, primarily due to the de-emphasis on a specific solar product. Looking ahead to 2026, the company anticipates a return to a more typical acquisition pace, with plans to spend approximately $200 to $250 million on purchases, reflecting a full pipeline and selective approach following recent efforts to reduce leverage.
The dialogue expresses confidence in achieving volume growth for the Electronics and Automotive (EA) segment in 2026, excluding solar, attributing success to market growth, new business, and strategic acquisitions. It discusses the impact of the Quantum Leap Initiative on free cash flow, expecting a temporary dip due to elevated CapEx and higher working capital, followed by a significant improvement post-initiative completion.
The dialogue explores the organic growth outlook, emphasizing mid-single-digit growth for EA excluding solar and slight declines for bass and HHC businesses. It discusses pricing strategies, including portfolio mix optimization and cultural shifts towards higher-margin products. The conversation also touches on market trends, noting weakening construction environments in Europe and the US, offset by successes in data center construction.
A discussion on maintaining competitive edge in packaging despite volume decline, emphasizing strategic customer focus and innovation. Highlights China's market rebound as a key global demand growth area, signaling potential recovery post-tariff impacts.
The dialogue discusses the expected decrease in HHC packaging volumes in 2026, attributing it to affordability issues faced by packaging customers in Europe and the US, contrasting with potential growth in Asia and Latin America.
A special item of $37.4 million, primarily due to a non-cash legal claim related to product liability from a divested flooring business, was discussed. The claim is partially offset by expected insurance recovery, with the reserve not initially considering insurance benefits.
A question about expected volume decline in Q1 led to a discussion on macroeconomic challenges and the effect of annualized customer gains from the previous year, concluding with a similar trend to Q4. The call ended with closing remarks and thanks to participants.
要点回答
Q:What is the expected decline in first quarter revenue and Adjusted EBITDA for 2026?
A:The expected decline in first quarter revenue for 2026 is a low single-digit percentage decrease, with Adjusted EBITDA expected to be between $110 and $120 million.
Q:What is the expected impact of Chinese New Year on Q1 and Q2 revenue?
A:Chinese New Year is expected to push some revenue from Q1 into Q2, resulting in a revenue shift of one to two weeks between the two quarters, which could have an impact of several million dollars on EBITDA.
Q:How does the company expect the raw material and pricing situation to change in fiscal year 2026?
A:In fiscal year 2026, the company is expected to see a year-over-year improvement in the combined price and raw material benefit, starting from a carryover benefit of around $25 million and increasing to about $35 million due to continued efforts in reallocating sourcing to drive pricing and business differentiation. The timing of the benefits is expected to be slightly weighted to the first half of the year, but the favorable spread is expected to continue throughout the year due to additional new pricing.
Q:What factors impacted the Business segment's performance in the quarter, especially with the government shutdown?
A:The quarter had a tough comparison for the Business segment with a plus 7% growth in Q4 of 24 for the overall Business segment. Factors impacting performance included a big customer win from 2024, success in serving data centers and LNG, and a generally tough construction environment. The Business segment was not directly impacted by the government shutdown, but the comp was affected by new customer business and the weakening construction environment.
Q:What are the recent wins and growth drivers in the Business segment?
A:Recent wins and growth drivers in the Business segment include a big project win on CP 2 with the Fosters product for cryogenic insulation systems in the LNG sector, a new data center in Texas, and continued success in the glass business with a 18% growth in sales despite a 6% reduction in housing starts. These factors are expected to contribute to growth in the segment.
Q:What challenges does the Packaging segment face, and how is it adapting?
A:The Packaging segment is facing weakness in North America from packaging and related CPG customers, with a trend of slightly negative volumes continuing into the next year due to affordability issues and lack of mobility. However, the segment is introducing innovations and is seeing growth in developing nations like EMEA and Asia Pacific, as well as shifts in market strategy to focus on locations with the potential for success.
Q:What is the expected pricing and volume growth for each GBU in 2026?
A:Pricing is expected to be positive in all GBUs, ranging from a half a percent to a percent in the EA GBU, with HHC and Bass likely to be down slightly year on year.
Q:What factors are expected to influence the free cash flow in 2026?
A:The free cash flow is expected to be supported by higher income working capital, with an increase guided to be around $25 million. The company has also mentioned that operating cash flow has been weighed down by working capital and expects it to remain higher in the near term.
Q:What is the company's outlook on EBITDA for 2026 and what are the key assumptions?
A:The company is not expecting any macroeconomic help and has built in strong self-help for the year. Key assumptions include positive pricing across all GBUs, no positive macroeconomic support for volume, a $35 million year-on-year improvement from pricing, $10 million in incremental savings from Quantum Leap, $10 million of variable comp rebuild, and about $20 million of wage and other inflation. Volume is expected to be relatively neutral, with potential to be a swing item.
Q:What are the main factors affecting other income and how did the pension assets and FX hedging impact this figure?
A:The main factors impacting other income are higher pension income due to pension assets earning higher returns and improved FX hedging, where the company has managed to reduce the impact significantly.
Q:What is the reason for the change in deferred taxes and accounts payable?
A:The change in deferred taxes is primarily due to a big dividend pulled from China in 2024, which included a withholding tax paid in 2025. This, along with timing on inventory, caused a big year-on-year swing in the deferred tax line and trade payables line.
Q:What is the impact of the weakness in the solar market in 2026 and is 2026 expected to be a meaningful acquisition year?
A:The solar business is expected to ramp down from $80 million in revenue in 2025 to around $50 million by the conclusion of 2026. As for acquisitions, the company has a full pipeline and is selectively working through it, with the acquisition cadence in 2026 expected to be more like a normal year, with a purchase price spend of roughly $200 to $250 million.
Q:What are the growth rates for the EA team excluding solar and how is the team performing?
A:The EA team excluding solar has shown about 7% organic growth in the fourth quarter, with 5% volume growth. The team is anticipated to continue driving this growth rate excluding solar in the future.
Q:How did the Nd acquisition perform in 2025 and what is the future outlook for this business?
A:The Nd acquisition in 2024 operated at 8% organic growth in 2025. However, this business is expected to face challenges from the solar business which is being de-emphasized, including a $30 million hit in 2026. Despite this, the electronics, aerospace, and especially the automotive market are growing successfully, with the automotive business in Asia achieving significant growth in interior and exterior trim, as well as lighting business growing about 50% in the same region.
Q:What is the outlook for free cash flow and how should it be considered in long-term analysis?
A:Free cash flow is expected to remain muted for the next couple of years primarily due to higher working capital associated with Quantum Leap. While working capital as a percentage of revenue is currently above script, the goal is to reduce it to below script, which is expected to be challenging this year but achievable. Peak working capital drag is associated with Quantum Leap and is expected to be reduced as the initiative is completed and as the company implements S/4HANA. Consequently, there will be slightly elevated CapEx and higher working capital related to these initiatives, which are expected to affect free cash flow negatively in the short term. However, a nice step-up in free cash flow is anticipated after the completion of Quantum Leap and the SAP implementation.
Q:What factors influence the organic growth outlook for the first half versus the second half of 2026?
A:The organic growth outlook for the first half of 2026 is expected to be low single digits, while the second half is forecasted to potentially be flattish with a benefit from the shift in the timing of Chinese New Year. To achieve flat growth for the year, an acceleration in the second half with up single digits is necessary. The biggest driver of this acceleration is the reduction in the impact of the solar decline by the second half, with the first half being more of a headwind, particularly in the first quarter which almost has no headwind by the second half.
Q:How does pricing strategy impact growth and what is the outlook for pricing?
A:Pricing strategy is influenced by actions taken throughout the year, which vary by business unit, market segment, and regional conditions. Historically, there are more pricing actions earlier in the year, which impact the ability to retain and drive pricing throughout the year. Portfolio mix and a cultural shift towards recognizing the value of HB Fuller's technologies in enabling customers to achieve cost reductions contribute to pricing power. With respect to raw material pricing, the company benefits from a more predictable pricing environment when considering the script together, allowing for better forecasts and responses to economic changes. The company feels good about its pricing strategy and its ability to predict pricing and raw material cost movements.
Q:What is the impact of the weakening environment on the construction market in the U.S. and Europe?
A:The construction market has been particularly weak in Europe and less so in the U.S., where the success in penetrating the data center construction market has helped offset some of the commercial construction weakness.
Q:Has the company maintained its market share in the declining packaging volumes?
A:Although the market is competitive and has intensified, the company believes it has maintained its share by focusing on delivering innovation and high service levels to selected customers.
Q:Which geographic market experienced an acceleration in demand growth excluding new market gains?
A:China was the geographic market that experienced an acceleration in demand growth, evidenced by its return to double-digit organic growth in Q4, after a pause due to tariff chaos.
Q:Why is the base case forecast for HHC volumes to be down in 2026?
A:The base case forecast anticipates a slight decline in HHC volumes in 2026 due to continued constraints in the packaging space, particularly in Europe and the U.S., where customers are struggling with affordability.
Q:Can you explain the special item of $37.4 million in the reg G reconciliation and its nature?
A:The special item of $37.4 million is predominantly related to a legal claim from a product liability lawsuit concerning the divested flooring business. It's a non-cash item recorded in the quarter, with an after-tax amount of $25 million, and the company expects insurance coverage to cover a substantial portion.

H.B. Fuller Co.
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